One of the things that helped us fall in love with our house was the neighborhood. It's full of modest, but well maintained homes, and many of the owners have lived in the neighborhood for 30+ years. Over the past month we've had the pleasure of meeting our neighbors on both sides and the neighbor that lives directly in front of us.
On one side is a man who I would guess to be in his late 70s and his wife. We haven't met the wife yet because apparently she has some health issues and doesn't spend much time outside, but the man is just the nicest guy you could ask for. He's fun to talk to, he's helped us identify some of the flowers around the house, and he's given me many tips for keeping my little garden alive. Keeping plants alive isn't a strong suit of mine, but so far so good. He's never mentioned having kids, but his college age grandson comes to cut his lawn every week, so I know he and his wife have at least one child. Yet he's never once said anything about us having kids or asked us when we were going to have kids.
On the other side is a lovely couple in their 90s (the man just turned 94 this week) who have lived in their house for 57 years. They invited us over for lemonade last weekend and we sat on their porch and talked to them for over an hour. The conversation spanned many topics (work, the neighborhood, mortgage rates, local sports teams), including the fact that they have nine children, 41 grandchildren, and 14 (and counting) great grandchildren, statistics that were stated as fact, not as bragging. Once they started talking about their large family I fully expected the conversation to turn to our procreation plans, but it never did.
The neighbors in front are a nice couple, roughly our age. They have a daughter who is maybe nine and a son who is maybe four. They are very talkative and have been very welcoming to the neighborhood. Yet within the first five minutes of meeting them the first time the wife asked if we had kids and then quickly followed up by stating that she is sure I'll be pregnant by the end of summer now that the stress of buying and fixing up the house is over. I really wanted to go batshit crazy on her, but I also don't want to piss off the neighbors, so I held my tongue and opted for a simple "actually we can't have kids," at which point the conversation pretty much died. Thankfully it hasn't come up again, but if it does, I'll probably add a bit more snark to my response.
The elderly neighbors said nothing about children or reproductive plans, but the neighbors our age did. So I'm left to wonder if this is a generational thing. Were things such as family planning seen as a private matter not to be discussed back when they were of childbearing age (in the 1950s and 60s)? Or since they came of age in a time when there was no assisted reproduction if they just more naturally and easily accepted that sometimes people can't have kids? Maybe some combination of both? I don't know, but it was really refreshing to have conversations with people who were able to see us for us.
Oh man... how stupid some people can be! I am glad that not all of your neighbours are like that! I once had a neighbour who asked me this same question twice in three years. I thought that was bad enough, but your neighbour beats it all!
ReplyDeleteI think there may be two aspects to why the elderly people do not ask "the" question. The first one being that the life of women our age who have children seems to revolve around them. It's what brings them the biggest sorrow and happiness at the same time. So of course it also is their favourite subject for a conversation. They simply do not seem to be able to think outside of that box.
Elderly people may love their grandchildren and talk about them, but due to their age, they have some distance to parenting itself. Here in Switzerland, the generation who is retired now is mostly in good health and very active in travelling and sports, so they have a lot more to talk about than just their offspring!
Also, a penpal of mine who is in her seventies mentioned once that in some countries, there used to be a lot of childless women after the war because their men had died or because there were simply not so many men available. Some elderly people may still remember that and be a little more sensitive in what they say?
You bring up a very good point about childless women after the war. It makes a lot of sense.
DeleteAnymore I don't even get offended by someone asking me if I have kids. Like you said, this is a big part of the lives of most women around my age. But to imply that just because we bought a new house that I'll magically get pregnant. That was offensive.
It's a great question. Part of me thinks it's due to where in life your neighbors are. The elder ones are not parenting, so their thought process doesn't revolve around children while your front neighbors clearly does.
ReplyDeleteBut, I also wonder if age brings wisdom that terrible things happen to good people. Children may have been lost or parenting not an option that was observed by many. The elder generation was witness to Vietnam and even WWII. People they loved didn't come home and that likely lead to some broken dreams. Our current generation hasn't known war on that level.
I don't know what the answer is. But I think your answer to the front neighbor was both kind and to the point. My hope is that she respects it and doesn't continue to push.
You just made me think of something that may be relevant. The neighbor is also a stay at home mom, so that really probably does encompass the majority of her life and thoughts in this season of her life. She's been talkative since and hasn't mentioned it again, so hopefully that means we're on good terms and that I didn't upset her too badly.
DeleteI am glad about the two elderly couples. You have said beautifully: " who were able to see us for us". Indeed, it is refreshing.
ReplyDeleteI am too! We didn't set out to find elderly neighbors, but it suits us just fine! :)
DeleteGood neigbours are a blessing. They sound lovely; a font of knowledge, history, wisdom and tact, and no late parties!
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the mother across the road was looking for future playmates for her kids or maybe even babysitting.... Talk about raining on her parade! You go girl!
A blessing indeed! I hadn't thought of the late party aspect, but this is good too!
DeleteI was going to agree that it was generational. Then I remembered that the first question my mother would ask about friends when I talked about them was, "do they have a family?" which irked me in so many ways as you can imagine. I'm not sure if that was a result of her Alzheimer's though or not! And I'm not sure whether she would have asked them directly either. I always tend to think it's an issue of manners. The older generation would probably not want to ask. Whereas maybe younger generations feel that everything is up for grabs. Clearly I don't know!
ReplyDeleteBut I am glad that you have good neighbours. Of course, now that you've moved in it the quality of the neighbourhood has improved tenfold!
Ouch! That must have hurt to get those question from your own mother who presumably knew at least bits and pieces of your journey.
DeleteThe younger generation definitely thinks that no topics are off limits. You are definitely correct about that!
It's funny, the neighbor on the one side said that he liked us within two days of buying the house because one of the first things we did was climb up on the roof and remove an old, ugly antenna.
This is a really interesting discussion. I am sure that IVF mythology and celebrities giving birth well into their 40s mean that the general public has largely gone backwards in their understanding of infertility and childlessness. And I certainly had elderly relatives growing up who clearly were childless not by choice and it was understood to be a delicate subject (including a great aunt who lost her brand new husband in the first world war and never remarried - the husband's medal is still in the family and I have always said I will keep it if no one else wants it, as I was always moved by this story). Anyway, where I come from (Britain), the older generation are definitely less prone to intrusive questioning in my experience, at least to people's faces. But I know in other cultures, the correlation with age can be the other way round. I have actually been meaning to ask you about this anyway - did you take the demographics of the area into account when you were house hunting? And if so, how did you judge them?
ReplyDeleteNaomi M
There were a few demographic/economic factors that we looked at (median income, number of foreclosures, sex offenders living in the area, property taxes, etc.), but two of the biggest factors for us were the commute to downtown (since I work downtown) and quality of the public school system (for resale value, since a lot of people look for that). We identified a few neighborhoods to target, found a few more with our realtor, who was born and raised in the area, and it worked out for us. Mainly we were just looking for a safe and quiet area, reasonable commute, usable yard, two (preferably three) bedrooms, 1.5 or 2 bathrooms, and central air conditioning. We only had to compromise on central air, but we both fell hard and fast for the house and it came in well below our max budget, so it's something we'll live with for now (with window ac units!) and add central air in a few years.
DeletePeople who haven't been through infertility don't understand how there comments can effect those of us who don't have control over our reproduction. I do think older individuals are less likely to ask personal questions especially to people they don't know well. I've used many different approaches over the years to answer nosy rude questions from virtual strangers. Five years into this journey and still no kids, my husband is now the one who gets more upset by the probing questions or assumptions. Some days I say i t's not up to us it's up to God, other days I want to say We actually don't like children so we don't have any (not true, but I'd love to see the reaction)! I just started blogging you can check out my journey over at http://www.notbreedingintheburbs.com/.
ReplyDeleteThanks for stopping by and commenting! I'll definitely check out your blog!
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